Blog Discussion Group Eight
Blog post due at 11:55pm on November 14 and comment due at 11:55pm on November 17.
China
- What changes did Mao make to Marxism and Leninism to make them more appropriate to the Chinese setting?
- Is it still appropriate to think of
- Discuss the possibility of
Discuss the possibility of China’s democratization.
ReplyDeletePeace, democracy and development have become the major trends in the world’s progress. At present, although there are still some levels of local conflicts in some parts of the world, the possibility of a large-scale war is unlikely. Most countries are seeking a construction environment of peaceful coexistence so as to move toward the prosperous economy, the prosperity of the country and the happiness of the people. After many years of practice in many countries, democracy has proved to be a more effective way to go along this path. Today, there are more and more countries choosing the democratic system and fewer and fewer dictatorships remain. China's democracy is the people's democracy as the people's masters. People's mastership is the essence of socialist democracy in China. The Constitution stipulates that all power in the People's Republic of China belongs to the people. The organs through which the people exercise state power are the National People's Congress and local people's congresses at various levels.
China democracy is the multi-party cooperation and political consultation under the leadership of the Chinese Communist Party. This system can better implement the extensive political participation of all democratic parties.
China's democracy is an ethic of equality, solidarity among all ethnic groups. China is a unified multi-ethnic country. In order to protect the equal rights of all ethnic groups and the special rights and interests of ethnic minorities, the state exercises a system of regional ethnic autonomy where ethnic minorities live in compact communities and autonomous organs are set up inhabited by ethnic minorities to exercise their power of self-government.
Democracy in China is a broad-based, self-governing democracy for grassroots people. China's democracy is the practice of administering the country according to law. Democracy in China is a democracy that upholds people as the foundation and respects and guarantees human rights. Respecting and safeguarding human rights is an important content and purpose of China's democratic politics.
Very cool perspective, I do not think of China in that way at all, but my opinion is a much less educated one. I actually have the perspective that China will more than likely never truly democratize, and you believe that China is an equal and multi-ethnic country. I am from Germany, and have traveled all over the world, but I have never been to China, and I believe you are from There. So I would assume you have a much better grasp of what's going on in China. To play the Devils advocate I would suggest that you have a strong sense of national pride, which would affect your ability to have an unbiased opinion on China. There is obviously nothing wrong with that. I am impressed with China and their ability to self govern.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteIn this blog post I will give reasons as to why China should no longer be called communist. Ever since the death of Mao and Deng Xiaoping (leader purged by Mao) taking power in 1978, China has morphed into an authoritarian government masked by the title of communism. The basic concept of communism is equality and anti-capitalist sentiments, yet China is run by the market and the wealth disparity is very apparent. There are poor Chinese peasants, while there are much richer people making it so the wealth gap is large. In Kesselman, "Deng's policies were a profound break with the Maoist past. He has long believed that Mao put too much emphasis on politics and not enough on the economy...Private enterprise was encouraged. The government allowed unprecedented levels of foreign investment," and the Chinese economy experienced mass amounts of growth (630). This would've made Mao very angry is he was alive because true and pure communism does not promote these ideals.
When I went to boarding school I interacted with a lot of students from China and they would talk about the lack of freedom they had in terms of censorship etc and it made me think that communism was a bad thing, but in actuality, it is just the current Chinese leaders interpretation of communism that makes it harsh on some Chinese people.
In conclusion, the CCP, although communism is included in the title, is not true Marxist or Maoist communism, but rather an unequal system benefitting people able to be involved in the free market and gain wealth.
I can not agree with your post very much. Others argue that communism "violates human nature," for the reason that everyone has their own lust, that communism says it needs to be allocated on an as-needed basis. On the surface, this argument seems to be established. For example, I would like to live in a 1,000-square-meter pool with luxury homes, want to open millions of cars, want to have their own vacation home in each of the famous scenic spots. There are many people who have this idea. If everything is to be taken by everyone, the resources of the entire world may not be enough for the Chinese people in China. Many people, even staunch communists, therefore believe that Communism is virtually hard to achieve and can only be an illusory dream.
DeleteIndeed, today’s standards of human thought and ethics are still below the standards of communism. But who says that they can never?
Chairman Mao made Marxism and Leninism more appropriate to the Chinese setting by changing the revolutionary vanguard from urban factory workers (as in the Soviet model) to rural peasant farm workers. "Both the Great Leap Forward (1958-1961) and the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976) embodied the unique and radical Maoist approach to economic development that was intended to be less bureaucratic and more egalitarian than the soviet model" (Kesselman, 635) The Great Leap Forward, in particular, was Mao reaction to Soviet Leader Khruschev's focus on urban industrialization which he thought was creeping toward capitalism. Mao thought urban areas bred bourgeois elitism and wanted to give farm workers equal footing as city-folk. The constant threat of the "potential for bourgeois elitist thought" was the driver for the Cultural Revolution which aimed to stamp out anything or anyone that might might pose a threat to the original peasant-focused revolutionary ideal.
ReplyDeleteThis is great information. I feel like I learned a lot just from this post. I honestly was not sure how to answer this question when I saw it on the blogger account. I actually learned information on the great leap forward and cultural revolution. Great write up. Thank you for teaching me and showing me the answer to this question. Sorry I don't have more intelligent wording on this but I t was all new information for me to absorb.
Delete
DeleteMao was transitioning a country from Confucianism into some nationalist ideas. The fear the threat of the bourgeoisie and the hate of the threat of the western culture infiltrating the Chinese belief system led to the desire for Marxism. China wanted to continue their worldly leadership and domination and felt communism was the key to that leadership. One of the main differences between Mao and other communist regimes was nationalism.
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a "communist" country.
ReplyDeleteWhile the Chinese Communist Party has adopted some aspects of capitalism, they are still considered communist. The party controls all land and aspects of the economy. They still have strict control of speech, assembly, and belief. The country's political structure is similar to a classic Leninist dictatorship.
Without the countries turn from complete socialism, under the rule of Deng Xiaopeng, they would not have reached a double digit GDP. The Chinese Communism Party does have some control over production, while allowing private enterprises and entrepreneurship's. Essentially the party runs a neo-command economy. The party is able to maintain control over the economy, because top Party officials run several key industries.
The Chinese Communist Party is the only "person" who can own land in China. They lease land out to all other Chinese residents. The Party is also very contradictory with its constitution, which it established. For example, the constitution guarantees freedom of belief, but the practice is not allowed.
The last sentence in the previous paragraph, to me, is an exact representation of what living in communism is like. We see that the Party contains so much, and that residents contain so little. Everything essentially belongs to the Party. Even the idea that Chinese residents do not even own their own land. That is really different from how land ownership in the United States works.
This post is just scratching the surface, I can't imagine what we would discover, if we researched even further.
It interesting to read your post because I'm not quite sure what you're argument is. In the beginning you said they are still communist, but in the end you sound like you're saying there is a discrepancy between the party and the people? Do you mean that they still call themselves communist, but theoretically they're not? In my opinion what you said is right, there is a lot of inequality between the party and the people, and that is not what true communism is about.
DeleteI always like reading your post. Usually we have the same thoughts and same beliefs. However I cannot say we do on this one. I never ever really see you answer the question it was like you beat around the bush and never answered it. I don't agree with what you are saying. The post is good length and is typed well i just cant figure out what you are trying to say.
Delete•Is it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteYes, China is still considered a communist country. They have converted to different practices but overall they are still considered a communist country. In our comparative introduction to political science it shows in table 4.1 it shows China as a communist party. In introduction to comparative politics page 623-672 had great information on the development of China and how it was developed and about communism in the economic and social equality.
I think China can be thought of as a "communist" country because the political party in total control of government is the CCP. But I also think that China is pretty far from the purist or Maoist definition of communism as " a system of social organization based on the common ownership and coordination of production." (Kesselman, 629) Maybe if we just leave that definition at "a system of social organization based on..." and fill in whatever Xiaopingian-derived adaptive market-control policy that happens to work on a really huge scale. That open-ended definition sounds like I'm joking (and I originally started to give it that angle completely) but at this very moment president Xi is superimposing his face over Mao Zedong's on posters all over China. That tells me that we are witnessing a re-branding (and new definition) of what Chinese communism means.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteYes, it is still appropriate to think of China as a communist country. This can especially be seen in thr country’s control of the media, education and arts. The text mentioned that while the party’s control of the media has lessened recently they are still restricted to only reporting on the Arts, human interest stories or stories that are aligned with the message of the CCP. The internet is strictly controlled by the government with many foreign websites being banned. There is freedom of religion but religions is also strictly controlled by the government and any clergy member that speaks out against the CCP faces the prospect of imprisonment.
Through reading your post, it was interesting to learn the extent in which their media is limited to. In my post, I too wrote about their government intervention with media. I found in my research that the Chinese Communist Party is very contradictory. An example of this, in your post, is freedom of religion, but religion is strictly regulated. I had mentioned in my post that the party's constitution guarantees freedom of belief, the practice is actually not allowed. I find their entire belief system interesting, but not in a good way.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteChina is still considered a communist state by the majority of western countries. Many transformations have taken place since the late 1940’s, however, when the Chinese government owned every aspect of human life. Once the People’s Republic of China was formed, some changes included transitioning an agriculturally based economy into an effort to industrialize and form trade relations with the west. The Chinese made a shift toward a capitalistic economic model and the economy has grown exponentially as a result. Unfortunately, human rights abuses against laborers remained prevalent in the early stages of Industrialization. Politically, the Chinese Communist Party has approximately 80-million members, making it the world’s largest political parties and one that has great power over its population. Leaders are granted power through an election process but the president as a figure-head is largely ceremonial. Many freedoms we enjoy in the U.S. are not a part of civilian Chinese life. Most notably, the government still holds power over most banking activities, the media and even land and property ownership. Citizens of China seem to embrace less communist views. Regarding this, one Pew researcher asserted that, “since 2002, the Chinese have consistently been one of the strongest proponents of capitalism compared with other public's around the world, even more so than Americans and Western Europeans” (Simmons, 2014). I think these characteristics indicate that China is no longer a communist country economically, but socially and politically there are remnants of communist ideology.
Simmons, Katie. (2014). China’s government maybe communist, but it’s people embrace capitalism. Pew Research Center. Retrieved from: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/10/chinas-government-may-be-communist-but-its-people-embrace-capitalism/
Discuss the possibility of China’s democratization.
ReplyDeleteThe argument that China could have democratic relevance rests on the observations of Japan, Taiwan and South Korea, all nearby countries that became democratic once they were adequately rich. The middle classes in these countries wanted accountable government, and ultimately the autocracies were willing to step aside and support democratic transitions. Much of Eastern Europe and Latin America became democratic too, and so it seemed plausible that China might be next in line. Many of the wealthier Chinese trust the Communist Party to look after their interests more than they trust elections. The middle to upper middle class is still a minority in China, and will stay so for a long time. A smaller country can build up a larger middle class, by exporting, than can a very large and populous country. There’s just not enough demand in global markets to elevate all or even most of the Chinese people, and so Chinese inequality likely will stay high. Nationalism is often a stronger than democratization and in the case of China that is one of biggest restraints from enabling them to progress into this political change.
Even as the economy in China moves slowly towards more privatization (and therefore a more capitalist outlook), do you still think that the middle class will struggle to expland? I also agree that the sheer size of the country may make it more difficult to transition into a democratic society... but I think this has more to do with the centralization of the government. As follows democracy, I think that the eventual dismantling of the central government's power would create chaos and instability among the masses that have become dependent upon that government for so long.
DeleteWhat changes did Mao make to Marxism and Leninism to make them more appropriate to the Chinese setting?
ReplyDeleteAs opposed to Marxism, Mao believed that the most work of the revolution would be due to the working class Chinese, the "peasants". He even began a Peasant Movement Training Institute in 1924. Since most of the peasantry was considered rural, it was easy for Mao to implement a technique in which the urban areas were surrounded by the revolutionary peasantry.
Still different from Marxism and Leninism, Mao promoted "the primacy of Mao Zedong thought", which basically said that "he was always right, and people could find the solution to any problem if they studied his thought sufficiently". He also suggested in "On New Democracy" that China should implement a two-stage revolution in order to form a third form of democracy that would be different from western capitalism and Soviet communism. "During the revolution up to 1949, the Communist Party managed to win the leadership of a very wide range of social forces who were ready to fight for at least some aspect of human dignity against domestic and foreign oppressors. Even with the transition to the much more radical, socialist revolution after 1949, Mao sought to maintain these allies and gradually transform them, rather than letting them drift into a reactionary position." (Encyclopedia of Anti Revisionism On-Line)
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteTechnically, China is still considered a communist country. In recent years China has adopted more democratic ideas. China is still run by the CCP; Communist Party of China. The CCP has decreased its involvement with the people of China but they still enforce a great deal of what the people can do. Traditionally communist countries control the redistribution of the wealth. In China’s case there is are extremely poor citizens and extremely rich citizens with a very small middle class. Additionally, the censorship by the government controls what the people can read and watch. In my opinion China is still a communist country but is actively adopting more western ideas each year.
Yes, it is still appropriate to think of China as a "communist" country only because the CCP still rules the country. China is run by the Chinese Communist Party, which has an exclusive hold on all political power in China. While the CCP was founded as a Marxist-Leninist party in 1921, it has significantly deviated from traditional Marxist policies since China's economic reforms in 1978. The name CCP causes considerable confusion for everyone, and there have been calls for it to change to become a social democratic party like those in northern Europe. (Hague and Harrop)
DeleteThe "Chinese Communist Party" rules the country, yes, but its policies have been less and less communistic since 1978, when Deng Xiaopeng took over after Mao's death and started liberalizing the economy as fast as he could starting by opening up several "Special Economic Zones."
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteThis is a tricky question. Like Kevin said, technically, yes. There is still a single party system in place that dictates rule, free speech and other things. However, the economy has shifted to a more capitalistic one in recent years. More and more people are able to make money in china and businesses are growing, all without the help of the government, at least not controlled by a centralized government economy. The standards of living are quite different between social classes unlike in the soviet union where a large middle class dominated the population. I think it is only a matter of time before the chinese government will have no choice but to shift away from the communist form of government and become more openly democratic.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/is-china-still-communist_2208716.html
China should still be considered a communist state because the government still controls energy, transportation, utilities and banking. Also land is managed by the state. There are some elements ofmodernization incorporated into the society like some privatized businesses, but the pressure from international relations may change the nature of China's political system. Other nations feel there is unfair competition with China who subsidizes their businesses. The government support allows China to sell their exports at a lower price. Communism makes the state more competitive in foreign trade. Another reason China is still a communist state is because of elections. There is one dominant party, CCP, and voting is not between two separate parties or ideals rather a show of unity of the party. If China pursues multiple tracts like the state did at the transition from Confusonism to communism, then the state could successfully transition to democracy, but they have not changed yet.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with your points. I think that all of your points also converge on the idea that China is a communist country. It is also important to keep in mind that a government transition such as the one you are discussing would happen over the course of at least a year or two. It is also possible to have the changes taking place at a slower rate such as the privatization of certain enterprises as disscused in Kesselman Et al. (630) These capitalistic changes though small would push China from being a completely communist state just at a much slower rate.
DeleteIs it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteYes, it is still appropriate to think of China as a "communist" country only because the CCP still rules the country. China is run by the Chinese Communist Party, which has an exclusive hold on all political power in China. While the CCP was founded as a Marxist-Leninist party in 1921, it has significantly deviated from traditional Marxist policies since China's economic reforms in 1978. The name CCP causes considerable confusion for everyone, and there have been calls for it to change to become a social democratic party like those in northern Europe. (Hague and Harrop)
The "Chinese Communist Party" rules the country, yes, but its policies have been less and less communistic since 1978, when Deng Xiaopeng took over after Mao's death and started liberalizing the economy as fast as he could starting by opening up several "Special Economic Zones."
• Discuss the possibility of China’s democratization.
ReplyDeleteSome think that when talking about democratization, it is important to look at a countries wealth. Government functions different based on how developed a country is. The endogenous theory is the belief that wealthier countries have the ability to develop, therefore, they can move to democracy. It is believed that the endogenous theory fails and the exogenous theory is much better. The exogenous theory is a belief that once a country is democracy, they are less likely to fall to dictatorship. An increase in income can strengthen a democracy but not transition a democracy. When analyzing Przeworski and Limongi’s findings, Chinas probability of democratization appears to be slim but possible and in development.
Carles Boix and Susan Stokes, "Endogenous Democratization," World Politics 55:4 (July, 2003): pp. 517-49.
Kesselman et al. Introduction to Comparative Politics (China), pp. 669 states that "as the people of China become more secure economically, better educated, and more aware of the outside world, they will also likely become more politically active." This is to say that the democratization of China is likely to happen but wont be a pretty transition.
DeleteThe transition would be triggered by a loss of confidence in the current ruling party, CCP, and or the deterioration of that party from corruption or lack of commitment from new leaders. That lack of confidence could occur after a financial downturn, ecological disaster, or the expansion of civil society.
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeleteYes it is still appropriate to think of China as a communist country. China has been moving in a direction that is away from communism but just because it is moving away from communism does not mean that it is not communist anymore. One reason for this, is that policies pushing China away from communism are not substantive or intense structural changes to their government. This is not to say that the changes are not important, but at the end of the day the changes do not change their primary government system. A change talked about in Kesselman et al. was the creation of private enterprises in China which though substantial, does not interfere with China in keeping with its communist roots. (630)
I agree with you completely. In recent years China has made steps towards becoming more of a democratic nation. However, just because they have adopted a few of these ideas doesn't make them a democratic nation. The fact the CCP still polices and control the people is the main factor I would still consider them as a communist country.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteKesselman describes authoritarianism as, “political systems in which power (or authority) is highly concentrated in a single individual, a small group of people, a single political party, or institution ” (pg. 29). He cites China as an example. Hague lists communist states as an example of authoritarian rule. He classifies its ruling party as a form of authoritarianism (pg. 61). However, even though communism is a form of authoritarianism, it does not mean that an authoritarian state that was once Communist is still Communists, simply because it practices authoritarian rule.
DeleteHague defines communism as a type of authoritarian rule “which monopolizes public authority in the name of economic modernization social transformation and national revival”. As my team demonstrated Tuesday, the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) expressed its monopolization of authority, not only by a single party rule, but by near total control of the economy. You might recall that after becoming the sole political party in China after the 1949 Civil War, the CCP spent a decade acquiring ownership of 45% of arable land, 68% of all industry with the remainder controlled through public-private partnerships, 100% of private firms, and all of the commanding heights of the economy such as energy, transportation, and banking. So, economic totalitarianism is an expression of single party authoritarianism, but also integral to China’s Communist identity and philosophy. [1] As we further demonstrated on Tuesday night, China’s share in state owned enterprises (SOEs) dropped from 99% around 1957, to just under 40% at the turn-of-the-century, and less than 5% in 2011 [2]. The CCP itself called China’s economy a “Socialist Market Economy” during its 14th Congress in 1992 [3].
Considering all the above, I would describe China as an authoritarian state, ruled by a single party, the CCP, with a free market economy. It is not, strictly speaking, communist.
[1] Library of Congress, Country Study: China, https://www.loc.gov/collections/country-studies/?fa=location%3Achina
[2] “State-owned enterprises in China: How big are they?” , http://blogs.worldbank.org/eastasiapacific/voices/state-owned-enterprises-in-china-how-big-are-they
[3] “Socialist Market Economy”, http://www.bankpedia.org/index.php/en/126-english/s/23712-socialist-market-economy
DISCLAIMER: This is an intellectual exercise, a college assignment. The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect the political views of the author.
Is it still appropriate to think of China as a “communist” country?
ReplyDeletePer Kesselman et al. Introduction to Comparative Politics (China), pp. 655, The Chinese Communist Party claims to represent the interest of all of the people so they are proclaiming to be a socialist democracy. I agree that China is not a communist country but i do feel that they are still a socialist country. Even by holding elections and having the appearance of unbiased representation along with a stable economy is not enough to change the socialist principles ingrained culturally into China.
A large portion of the Chinese economy still under government control and even with the multiple political parties present they all show loyalty to the CPC (communist party).
It was stated that the democracy is representative of the population and that the "people the masters of the country". How could this be true if the culture leads the citizens to remain loyal to the communist party and elections are won with as little as 3000 votes?
As for communist vs socialist i think that China is not as rigid as true communism and not pronounced in a system of violence. Economy wise they also do privatize certain aspects of industry and still value profit being distributed among the society or workforce to complement individual wages/salaries.
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ReplyDeleteWhat changes did Mao make to Marxism and Leninism to make them more appropriate to the Chinese setting?
ReplyDeleteUnder the Soviet system, after the Bolshevik’s Civil War with White Russia, nationalization moved at a rapid pace. Although at first, there was “an uneasy truce between the Bolsheviks and the capitalist,” within just two years of the beginning of the 1917 revolution the Bolsheviks determined that they would have to rapidly seize and nationalize everything, because of the economic crisis created by the Civil War and its expenditures (Gregory, 2000, pg. 40). [1]
At first, in 1918 the Bolsheviks owned just “10% of the coal supplies, 25% of the Arun foundries, less than 50% of the grain area, and less than 10% of the sugarbeet,” and only one quarter of the land [1, pg. 40]. By 1920, they had nationalized “about 37,000 enterprises,” “all requisitions were centralized,” ‘all private trade was abolished,’ and all labor was compulsory. The government was not yet prepared for such in-depth centralization, so foreign trade evaporated, industry, transportation, and agriculture all declined, and nationalized industries functioned without direction since nothing comparable was put in place to supplant the market system [1]. It was a rapid, hostile, and aggressive move.
In contrast, Mao made a distinction between the bourgeoisie who were outright traitors that “served the capitalist of the imperialist countries,” and the “enlightened gentry who are middle and small landlords and who have some capitalist coloration display some enthusiasm for the war,” and he declared that “we should unite with them in the common fight against Japan” [2]. He counted the handicraftsman, professional people, and petty bourgeoisie as “people whom we must win over and whose interests we must protect because in general they can support or join the revolution and are good allies” [2].
He recognized that the proletariat could not win the revolution with strength alone. He classified Chinese society this way, and recognized the need for help in their struggles; “the peasantry is a firm ally of the working class, the urban petty bourgeoisie is a reliable ally, and the national bourgeoisie is an ally in certain periods and to a certain extent. This is one of the fundamental laws established by China's modern revolutionary history” [2]. It is therefore necessary to “have a prudent policy towards the national bourgeoisie” [2].
[1] Gregory, Paul (2001). Russian and Soviet Economic Performance and Structure. New York: Addison Wesley Longman, Inc.
[2] Tse-tung , Mao (1939). The Chinese Revolution and the Chinese Communist Party.
DISCLAIMER: This is an intellectual exercise, a college assignment. The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect the political views of the author.